PFC Minutes 7/13/09 Meeting

Minutes of the Police & Fire Commission meeting held on Monday, July 13th, 2009 at city hall pursuant to notice duly given.

1. Meeting called to order at 6:00 p.m. by President Dick Olson.
2. Roll call: Dick Olson, Gene Berth, Ron Hayes, Tim Longsine and Steve Gering. Also present: Mayor Nerenhausen, Atty. James Kalny, Dennis Ladwig, Fire Chief, Dale Carper, Police Chief and Linda Belongia Administrator and as recording secretary.
3. Moved by Hayes seconded by Berth to approve of the agenda as presented.
Motion carried upon verbal voice vote. 5 ayes
4. President Olson stated the commission may vote at approximately 6:01 p.m. to convene into closed session pursuant to notice duly given and as
allowed by Wis. Stats. for the following:

a. SEC 19.85(1) (e) for deliberating and negotiating regarding specified public business where completive reasons require a closed session to
allow for evaluating proposals received regarding police and fire
department study.

b. SEC 19.85(1) (f) preliminary consideration of discipline problems concerning specific employees.

c. SEC 19.85(1) (e) discussion of labor negotiating strategy.

Moved by Hayes seconded by Gering to convene into Closed Session at
6:00 p.m.
Motion carried upon verbal roll call vote. 5 ayes

Included in the closed session were Atty. Kalny, Mayor Nerenhausen and Linda Belongia

Closed Session

6:29 p.m. Dennis Ladwig Fire Chief brought into the closed session

5. Moved by Berth seconded by Hayes to reconvene into Open Session at 6:58 p.m.
Motion carried upon verbal voice vote. 5 ayes

6. Request from John Reed, Union President to discuss Fire Dept. issues.
Reed stated he is bringing to the PFC issues that the fire dept employees
have asked Chief Ladwig for direction on and they aren’t getting anything
from him; Grant for a dry hydrant in the Town of Oconto…needs to be
done by mid August, paid for by city to be reimbursed by town, missed the
grant period for the Town of Lt. River; Andrew Hoppe stated this is a DNR
grant that the Oconto Fire Dept applied for on behalf of the township, was
o.k.’d about a year ago by township; is a 50-50 grant that was awarded
July 2008, applied for an extension in April 2009 and now that expires
8/1/09; everything needs to be paid for and canceled checks submitted
with grant paperwork by deadline of 8/1; A. Hoppe estimated the amount
for this at $3,114 which amts to $1,557 paid by the city; Hayes questioned
why we weren’t told about this at the May meeting? Reed stated they
tried talking to the Chief, but were given no direction; Hayes stated
someone from the dept is always at the meetings, why didn’t this come
up? Ladwig stated everything wad done before he started as Chief; A
Hoppe stated the Land Use Agreement was signed in October 2008 by
then Chief Mike Hoppe, Larry Pagel and the Town Chair, Pat Scanlan;
Hayes questioned the RFP for bids for installation of the dry hydrant; A
Hoppe stated three RFP’s were received; Gering questioned who will bury
the pipe? A Hoppe stated the excavator will dig the hole, the pipe will be
laid by the fire dept; concern on fire dept doing this; Mike Hoppe stated
he’s done these before, done all the time by fire personnel;

Moved by Berth seconded by Gering to refer the Land Use Agreement to Atty. Mraz and act on this as quickly as possible.
Motion carried upon verbal voice vote. 5 ayes

Reed questioned applying for future grants; stated Chief Ladwig couldn’t
think of anything the department needed; Discussion on DNR grants; A
Hoppe stated these are 50-50 grants and the fire depts. share has
normally been budgeted; Olson stated the PFC wants to continue applying
and directed A Hoppe to continue submitting applications; A Hoppe stated
we missed the application time for another DNR grant for a dry hydrant for
the Tn of Lt River; Jack Mlnarik stated we need direction from the Chief;
Ladwig stated till we get one hydrant done, didn’t think we should apply for another; Olson agreed with Ladwig…asked that the employees come up
with a list of items that could be applied for under the grants and give this
to the Chief…anything fire related; A Hoppe stated the grant applications
were due in May, so the time has expired for now; Hayes stated if the
paperwork on grants is coming to the Chief or A Hoppe as grant preparer,
then A Hoppe should meet with the Chief and have the Chief make a
recommendation for or against to the PFC; Hayes stated we need to open
up the dialog in the dept; Olson stated he understands we’ve missed the
grant period for the Tn of Lt River; Hayes stated we can wait till the next
grant period; Hayes stated Hoppe as grant writer and Chief are now
authorized to submit all info on any grant to the PFC; Atty. Kalny stated
the PFC can just direct that this is how grants be handled;

Reed questioned turn out gear; stated Jonathon Ladwig has his gear
tested at NWTC; report came back that it is not safe to be used to fight
fires; areas on the gear turned red, is indication gear is not safe; men in
the dept are worried the turn out gear is not safe, no direction from Chief;
Chief Ladwig stated he didn’t say the gear is not safe, defined
temperatures gear can handle….stated he sent the gear out to be
investigated; Reed and Mlnarik referenced conversation July 5th, issues
were raised about the gear not being safe, what Chief is now saying is not
what he said at that meeting; Jonathon Ladwig no longer wears the
department issues turn out gear, he wears the gear he as an instructor at NWTC was issued, Reed stated this isn’t right that he is
not wearing gear issued by Oconto Fire Dept; Reed stated Jonathon and
Chief Ladwig want new gear; A Hoppe stated the turn out gear is certified; Mlnarik stated it is reputable and used around the country; Mike Hoppe
stated he called NWTC, evidently Jonathon did the testing on his
own…they have no log of the testing, Hoppe stated they are going to
investigate this and he asked for a copy of what they find….stated when
he ordered the gear everyone tried it on, except for the two who didn’t
want this gear; Chief Ladwig stated what Jonathon did was not a test, was
part of an exercise; Mlnarik stated they are just asking the Chief if the turn
out gear is safe, couldn’t get an answer, now before the commission he’s
telling a different story; Chief Ladwig stated he will let the employees know
the status on what he gets back regarding the turn out gear;

Reed questioned the new policy and procedures for the day and the daily
log that Chief Ladwig is trying to put into place; Reed stated they don’t
have a problem with policy and procedures, but do with the log book; we
have our union looking at the log request…at we feel this is a negotiable
item; no problem with doing what Chief Ladwig asked, but tried to ask the
Chief what this was about…and the Chief walked out on Reed and told
him to just leave it till he meets with the PFC; Reed stated after the last
PFC meeting Chief Ladwig told the members of the fire department what
the PFC has in store for the employees is scary; Reed stated a lot of
confusion is going on about the fire service; we have people responding to
fire who don’t know what to do; Reed referenced Roger Reed coming into
the dept during the last structure fire and five guys standing around not
knowing what to do; Reed stated he was the senior man on the shift so he
was the incident commander…when Chief arrived he did not take over, so
Reed stated he continued to run the scene; Reed stated we used to be
involved with the training, that has been put aside, a lot of confusion, lack
of direction, no offer of a solution; Mlnarik referenced 5/1/09 when Dennis
Ladwig came on board he told the fire dept he will not be responsible at
fires, he has his son run the scene; Berth questioned what has changed
under the new regime, did we change procedures on fighting fires? Reed
stated we don’t know; Mlnarik stated we get no direction from the Chief;
Berth stated you’ve been here long enough, trained, and now with a new
Chief you don’t know what to do; Mlnarik stated we get no direction; Reed
stated we have guys standing there not knowing what equipment to bring
out; 2nd fire we had was a grass fire, Reed stated Jonathon ran that
scene…agrees with Berth, in 60 days a lot of confusion…we have a big
problem; Atty. Kalny stated we do have a concern if we don’t know who is giving the orders…is that the problem….not trusting that person? Reed stated he doesn’t know if it’s Chief’s Ladwig’s leadership ability; Mlnarik stated based on documentation the men have been keeping we have a
serious communication issue; Hayes stated we need to work on this; Reed
stated he will work on that, but it goes from Chief Ladwig to Jonathon;
Mlnarik again referenced Chief’s comment on 5/1/09 that he is not capable
of running the fire ground and will use a part time 22 year old employee to
run the scene…this was made on his first day; Hayes stated we need to
get the issues resolved; Mlnarik questioned how? Hayes stated basic
complaint is Chief Ladwig doesn’t run the department and Jonathon is;
Berth stated it shouldn’t be a part time employee doing this; Hayes stated
only change is a non senior man running….Mike Hoppe was
gone…leadership is a non senior man running; Reed stated concern on
this; Hayes stated making the call as to what needs to be brought up;
Mlnarik stated major complaint is that Chief Ladwig is not going to be
responsible…lack of knowledge…to take charge is more than a
communication problem; Reed stated we are going back to the senior man
running the shift…have issues that need to be resolved; Longsine stated
the group needs to get together; Mlnarik stated on 6/25/09 he had a
conversation with the Chief…stated we need to work together…stated
Chief agreed, but nothing more has been said to anyone on this; Mlnarik
referenced again 5/1 comment by Chief that he is not confident doing the
job as Chief; Atty. Kalny stated the PFC can direct the Chief to get the issues clarified and report back to the PFC;

Atty. Kalny was excused.

7. Moved by Gering seconded by Berth to approve and place on file as typed the minutes from the June 8th, 2009 meeting.
Motion carried upon verbal voice vote. 5 ayes

8. Correspondence: Chief Carper referenced budget issues…increase in
state fees;

9. Public Input: None

10. Citizen Complaint: Longsine presented complaint in writing on 226
Mineau and 234 Mineau; his complaint on these properties goes back to
mid February or March, to date nothing is being done; wants the PFC to handle this as he’s been told it’s been turned over to Ron Banach and also
the Police Dept. Chief Carper stated he met with Banach today regarding 234 Mineau…Banach didn’t know he had to seek a warrant, so we need to
go back and do some of the procedures; Longsine stated he now can see
why citizens get disgusted; Chief Carper stated that Banach stated if it’s a health hazard, we can seek assistance through the county, to date nothing
on this has been done; Chief Carper stated the property at 226
Mineau…semi parking, he asked Banach how this should be
handled…with two departments looking into it? Hayes stated operating a
business in a residential area? Chief Carper stated part of the evidence,
but not all…again, he’ll discuss this with Banach as the bldg inspector;
Hayes stated asked the Chief to work in conjunction with Banach to get
these two issues resolved; Hayes questioned Chief Carper as to what
form of notification was provided by Banach to the resident? Chief Carper
stated he was not sure, trying to work this out; Hayes asked that Chief
Carper keep on this; Longsine stated he wants a report for the next
meeting;

11 Discussion/possible action/updates on the following:
a. Memorandum of Understanding from County regarding Spillman Software; Chief Carper stated the MOU is $120/year plus any billable
hours if the system was to go down as a result of a city issue;

Moved by Hayes seconded by Longsine to refer the MOU to Atty Mraz for review and then recommend that Council approve the agreement.
Motion carried upon verbal voice vote. 5 ayes

b. Department Accreditation Process: Chief Carper stated the members of the Police Dept brought this up at a dept meeting; the accreditation
program is a set of standard policies and procedures put together by a law
enforcement accreditation group; this is not a free process; they would go
through every policy, procedure and memorandum that we have, this
would be compared to the standard; Chief Carper stated he doesn’t want
to duplicate the process if the PFC is going forward with an audit, then no
need for this; Olson questioned how many depts. in the state are
accredited? Chief Carper stated not many…believes Appleton is on the
federal level…it’s very tough; Gering questioned the time line for this?
Chief Carper stated ½ year at best; Olson questioned Mike Hoppe if there
is such a program for a fire department? M Hoppe stated no.

c. National Night Out. Chief Carper stated the preparations continue; the Taser demo with a volunteer has been ruled out due to concerns from our
insurance carrier and Atty. Mraz. Chief Carper stated they make look at
some other way to do the demo rather than with a volunteer.

d. JAG Grant. Chief Carper stated this is on the July 14th, council agenda for approval. Olson questioned if we are within the deadline? Chief
Carper stated we’re o.k.

12. Moved by Berth seconded by Gering to approve of the police, fire and ambulance reports including overtime and place on file.
Motion carried upon verbal voice vote. 5 ayes

13. Discussion on accts payable listing and department reports; Chief Carper stated the computer is on the listing; confusion on the light bar order,
so that is re-ordered; module for copier to allow for scanning Chief Carper
stated he will hold off on this till the end of the year to see if supply budget
can handle that;

Moved by Hayes seconded by Gering to approve of the listing of accounts
payables for $9,792.46 and place on file.
Motion carried upon verbal voice vote. 5 ayes

14. Discussion on Expense and Revenue reports. Olson asked Belongia to review the distribution for salaries and benefits;
Moved by Hayes seconded by Berth to accept and place on file as presented.
Motion carried upon verbal voice vote. 5 ayes

15. Chief Carper stated he will be attending a conference in August.

16. Moved by Gering seconded by Berth to adjourn. M/C
Meeting adjourned at 8:38 p.m.

Minutes submitted by
Linda M. Belongia,
Administrator